I worked with website/themes/beastie/layouts/partials/sidenav.html in the past, but I can't guess how to fix this.
After fixing the sidebar: attend to the main part of the download page.
12.4 is indeed production release and will be maintained until December 31, 2023.
Created attachment 243980 [details] Screenshot: 12.4-RELEASE no longer production at the FreeBSD Project home page :-) (In reply to Li-Wen Hsu from comment #2) By recent definition, with reference to the home page of the FreeBSD Project (the result of the linked review): - 12.4 is no longer production – screenshot attached. Issues arising, with regard to RELEASE versions of FreeBSD: A) whether production always means production quality B) at present, no widespread shared understanding of what's meant by legacy C) looking ahead, what happens when legacy disappears D) the summary line here. Thoughts ======== Question A) This should be easiest to answer. I'm fairly certain that production does (always) mean production quality, because, amongst other things, <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/commit/5c8cc20333c4e87dd5d3a562ad87f5c18254d5fd> added a relevant heading, and was approved by Glen Barber. Side note: whilst pages such as <https://www.freebsd.org/where/> do not properly distinguish between heading levels (bug 271477), alternative views such as <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/website/content/en/where.adoc#production-quality> may help to visualise things. Issue B) Colin Percival, author of the originally linked review comment, is a participant in related <https://old.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/15l74km/-/>. There's at least one other discussion. IMHO it's too soon to bring anything like a conclusion to Bugzilla. Additional parallel discussion might take place on a mail list – let's keep noise, here, to a minimum. Issue C) When the word 'legacy' disappears – entirely – from key areas such as the home page and the download page(†), readers are left with no hint of its meaning. It's: * missing from answers to frequently asked questions * not mentioned at <https://www.freebsd.org/security/>, which expresses support for releases – some of which are not RELEASE * not suitably explained in the FreeBSD Handbook – the sole mention is partly with reference to stable/11 (this can be fixed quickly and non-contentiously in a separate BR (not here, please)) * … and so on. ---- (†) The word is not yet apparent in the sidebar. Its absence is the essence of comment 0.
(In reply to Graham Perrin ◐ from comment #3) > D) the summary line here. Edited: - "no longer production" is simultaneously true (according to the home page) and untrue (issue B).
^Triage: reporter is committer, assign accordingly.
From D37235 for the download page <https://www.freebsd.org/where/>: > Generally, the page has become a slightly disorderly mix: choices, > production quality (RELEASE), beta, development, snapshots, CURRENT, > STABLE, general information, purchasing (RELEASE, presumably), > archaic stuff, current stuff (derivatives (non-Project)), > current stuff (ports (within the FreeBSD Project)). > Begin improving this, … That was, a _beginning_. If you like, think of this bug 273017 as a next step towards improvement. Cohesive changes to a handful of pages might yield the best improvement. My thoughts on this were fairly well-formed some time ago … I'll not share them until after progress on comment 3 issue B (and then, I'll probably share them elsewhere; Bugzilla is not ideal).
Restored: CC doc@ (In reply to comment #5) Readers, please note that I chose to report using a different ID, not as a committer.
(In reply to Graham Perrin ◐ from comment #7) And? You continue to be a committer no matter what email you use. If there's a problem on the website, go ahead and fix it. If you don't know how to do something, you can ask doceng@ or re@ if you have a doubt
My reasons are off-topic from bug 273017. Let's keep noise, here, to a minimum.
I'm really confused here. Is this a general question about what 'legacy' means? Or is this specific enough to change the title of the PR to something like: "12.4 is marked as legacy in the web site"? And *then* try to fix the specific problem in the web site. For general discussions, clarifications, etc, please use the forums and mailing lists.
(In reply to Fernando Apesteguía from comment #10) There is a problem – inconsistency – with at least one page, it's prominent enough for a bug report (affecting many people). There's the temptation of a quick partial fix (to the multi-page sidebar, comment 0) however: - no fix should apply until (comment 3 issue B) there's a widespread shared understanding of what's meant by legacy with regard to RELEASE versions of FreeBSD. HTH Also re: comment 3, >> Additional parallel discussion might take place on a mail list If anyone begins a discussion there, please add a link here. Thanks.
(In reply to Graham Perrin ◐ from comment #11) No, this is not how it works. Let me show you the logical flaw here. You are stating there is an inconsistency in the web page due to the use of the word "legacy". At the same time you state that that you don't really know the supposed meaning of the word "legacy", hence you invalidate your first premise. First, clarify the meaning of the word "legacy" (bugzilla is not the tool for that). If *after* the clarification there is an inconsistency, then create a PR with *a proper title line*. You can't possible consider that "The meanings of 'legacy' – in particular, for things such as FreeBSD 12.4-RELEASE, which is no longer production" is describing any kind of bug. If anything, it is asking (kind of) what "legacy" should mean. Again, this is not the tool. Bugzilla is for bug reports not for general discussions (https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugzilla/TriageTemplates#Issue_is_a_.27general_support.27_question) If you want to take the shortcut, lwhsu@ already said that 12.4 is a production release. He is an authorized voice since he is a member of core@ (https://www.freebsd.org/administration/#t-core). If you accept that, then please change the title of the PR to something specific and let's work to fix *that*.
(In reply to Graham Perrin ◐ from comment #3) > … Colin Percival, author of the originally linked review comment, … For clarity, here's relevant part of the comment: >> … I approve the designation of 13.2 as production and 12.4/13.1 as legacy. – and he's Deputy Lead of the Primary Release Engineering Team, so I'd like to (also) gain guidance from him.
(In reply to Fernando Apesteguía from comment #12) > … Bugzilla is for bug reports not for general discussions … Please note that I did begin a discussion elsewhere (not in Bugzilla) before making the report in Bugzilla; also that I drew attention to mail lists (for parallel discussion) in comment 3.
It took me a couple of weeks to rediscover this (sorry), I stumbled into it whilst preparing an unrelated diff for the download page: <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/commit/b1fcdc951599e9baf7e71e59c8dcee3b5c10d3d6#diff-c023f144bb7cacd65b6200d261546c696d5b4d91a8b5dd26c435a2c4ccf08383R13-R17> > … Legacy releases are for users wishing to stay with a more > conservative upgrade strategy. … – and linked from the preceding comment: <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=266094#c2>, which reminds me: > Is this true? … No mention of legacy in the February 2015 > 'Changes to the FreeBSD Support Model' > <https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2015-February/001624.html>. ---- Now I see, the '=== Legacy Release' section of the page was actively used a couple of weeks before I became a mentee: <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/commit/b67049ece14c995e36f8554813fd624169735b8b> I don't want to spend too much time digging through ancient history, I guess that thoughts of _conservatism_ were partly rooted in legacy release engineering. From legacy <https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/releng/#introduction>: > … To service our most conservative users, individual release branches > were introduced with FreeBSD 4.3. These release branches are created > shortly before a final release is made. After the release goes out, > only the most critical security fixes and additions are merged onto the > release branch. – 4.3 was fourteen years before the changes to the support model. --- Fast-forward to this month: > I would say that legacy means "we don't recommend using this if you're > setting up a new system, but it's still supported in case you're > running an older system". > > As far as FreeBSD releases are concerned, I would say that FreeBSD > X.* becomes "legacy" once FreeBSD (X+1).1-RELEASE ships. > Some people won't want to use a .0 release, but once we get to > .1 I would advise everyone to use that rather than a > previous major version. – <https://old.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/15l74km/-/jv9db9l/> This interpreted meaning (there are others) seems to differ significantly from the conservative upgrade mindset. No one person is right, or wrong :-) ---- I envisage a coordinated enhancement to the download page that should negate the need to describe any version as legacy …
I'm going to punt this to core.
<https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable/> describes STABLE as the production branch. Please count this description amongst the things that should be changed. ---- The Get FreeBSD page correctly places RELEASE only (not STABLE) under the Production Quality heading as shown at <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/website/content/en/where.adoc#production-quality>. It's understood that a change to this heading may be appropriate. The Development Snapshots heading does not appear as it should, and can be fixed with the patch that I attached to bug 273383. Then, the two STABLE subheadings can correctly fall under the Development Snapshots heading (not under what's currently Production Quality).
^Triage: bugmeister note: this PR is blocking me from implementing PR 273465. I do not have a proposed fix ATM.
<https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable/> describes STABLE as the production branch. This seems contradictory to presentations of STABLE as separate from production.
Discussed at the EuroBSDCon devsummit without any significant negative feedback: We're going to call releases "legacy" when we think users should generally not be using them for new installations. There will always be exceptional circumstances but this messaging is important particularly for newcomers to FreeBSD. Generally speaking, as soon as X.(Y+1) is released X.Y is "legacy", and once (X+1).1 is released X.* is "legacy", but re@ may diverge from this on occasion (i.e. that's not part of the definition, just what I expect will usually be the case). Right now 14.1 is "production" and 14.0, 13.3, and 13.4 are all "legacy". Please alert me to any places on the website which do not correspond to this.