The below patch will add an important <note> section which will remind the users to update their firmwares before installing FreeBSD, as this could be a problem. Half the PRs in the Database, are lying their becuase the users did not update their Firmware BIOS, and stuff.. Hope it gets in ;) -- Hiten Pandya -- <hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org> How-To-Repeat: n/a
hi, I h've finally made the FAQ entry as well, just as pointed out by sheldon. Please do not hesitate to contact me, for suggestions/comments/critics. ;) regards, - Hiten - <hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org> --- book.sgml Thu Jan 31 03:18:44 2002 +++ book.sgml.new Fri Feb 1 07:50:01 2002 @@ -84,7 +84,7 @@ indirectly on William Jolitz's port of U.C. Berkeley's <quote>Net/2</quote> to the i386, known as <quote>386BSD</quote>, though very little of the 386BSD - code remains. A fuller description of what FreeBSD is and + code remains. A full description of what FreeBSD is and how it can work for you may be found on the <ulink URL="../../../../index.html">FreeBSD home page</ulink>.</para> @@ -1159,6 +1159,23 @@ FreeBSD</ulink>.</para> </listitem> </itemizedlist> + </answer> + </qandaentry> + + <qanaentry> + <question id="install-failure"> + <para>Why does the installation fail at startup (during the PnP + scan)?</para> + </question> + + <answer> + <para>Many Problem Reports have been filed mentioning that the + installation failed at startup, during the PnP scan. Make sure you + have applied all the latest <literal>BIOS</literal> firmware + updates, and other firmware updates for your hardware. If you are + still experiencing problems, please submit a + <ulink url="http://www.FreeBSD.org/send-pr.html">Problem Report + </ulink>, so that it can be analyzed. </answer> </qandaentry> The above patch should be applied to the FreeBSD FAQ, and it will be added into the installation section.
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 10:22:50AM +0000, hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org said: > > + problem booting-strapping the system. By ensuring this, you can Don't like it. Should be boot-strapping or bootstrapping or even just booting, but not booting-strapping :) Ceri
If memory serves me right, hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org wrote: > The below patch will add an important <note> section which will > remind the users to update their firmwares before installing > FreeBSD, as this could be a problem. I object to this change. By insisting that users update their BIOS before even trying to install FreeBSD, you're raising a considerable barrier to entry. Certainly it is a good idea to point this out as a *possible* step to take in trying to troubleshoot an installation gone awry. But that's very different from what you proposed. > Half the PRs in the Database, are lying their becuase the users > did not update their Firmware BIOS, and stuff. As someone who's made several sweeps through the PR database, I claim that "half" is a considerable exaggeration. You have to consider how many people install FreeBSD without any problems whatsoever, with their BIOS or anything else. For all of those people, your change is going to result in wasted effort, plus raise the spectre of users accidentally causing their own problems while they try to hunt down BIOS images, flash their machines, etc. > Hope it gets in ;) I hope it doesn't, at least not in its current form. Can you try wording this in a less emphatic way? Thanks, Bruce.
hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org writes: > + <note> > + <para>It is very important, that you apply the neccessary firmware > + updates before starting the installation, or if you encounter a > + problem booting-strapping the system. By ensuring this, you can > + save yourself a lot of problems in the future.</para> > + </note> Well, it DOES say "neccessary", so I guess it keeps the FDP blameless, but if it's necessary to mention BIOS upgrades, it probably ought to be longer than that, and change it from the form of a recommendation to that of a suggestion to consider the upgrade, listing pros and cons. I've read advice almost exactly to the contrary of the new note. Namely, that one NEVER apply updates until one becomes aware of a need for it. I don't know the validity of that either, but it's been my practice too, mostly because of the danger of flubbing the BIOS burn and being shut down while arranging for a replacement BIOS. Maybe suggest that the BIOS changelog or upgrade notes be consulted, or ML archives. Often, BIOS upgrades just tweak some rarely-used feature that is serious, but only for a few users. It's also possible that the kernel version being used was tested against an old version of the BIOS, so the age of both should be a consideration in deciding to upgrade the BIOS. You probably know a few more pros and cons. BTW, fix spelling on "neccessary", and please take a minute to check spelling before submissions to avoid the hour another PR would take. (If you use a good editor like XEmacs, it takes much less than a minute.)
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org wrote: > + <note> > + <para>It is very important, that you apply the neccessary firmware > + updates before starting the installation, or if you encounter a > + problem booting-strapping the system. By ensuring this, you can > + save yourself a lot of problems in the future.</para> > + </note> The following patch removes the suggestion that everyone should upgrade their BIOS before installation (oh, the horror!) and contains no spelling mistakes or grammatical errors that I can see. Both of these do, I believe, set it apart from the original patch and thus I present it for review. As usual, a copy is available as the top link at: http://www.openirc.co.uk/freebsd/ --- chapter.sgml Thu Oct 25 09:27:51 2001 +++ chapter.sgml.new Sat Feb 2 00:50:00 2002 @@ -4432,6 +4432,20 @@ questions and answers for people wishing to dual-boot FreeBSD with MS-DOS.</para> + <note> + <para>Many installation problems can be avoided or alleviated by + updating the firmware on various hardware components, most notably + the motherboard. If the installation fails to work then updating + the BIOS may solve the problem. Refer to your motherboard + manufacturer's website for information on BIOS revisions and upgrade + instructions.</para> + <para>Most manufacturers strongly advise against upgrading motherboard + BIOSs unless you have a good reason for doing so. The + process <emphasis>CAN</emphasis> go wrong, causing the BIOS to be + destroyed permanently. Therefore <emphasis>DO NOT</emphasis> do + this unless you believe it will solve your problem.</para> + </note> + <sect2> <title>What to Do If Something Goes Wrong...</title> ---end diff--- Comments/suggestions? -- Andrew McKay <andy@openirc.co.uk>
On 1 Feb 2002, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Looks good to me. I tend to not like preachy docs, so I'd probably > leave out that last bit of advice, but it's OK. See revised patch below. Did you mean lose the whole second paragraph? I think pointing out the seriousness of this step is important so I've left in the bit about the fact that the process CAN go wrong but removed the bit telling people not to do it. I would hope that being told your motherboard could be permanently destroyed pretty much implies 'do not do this unless you have a compelling reason'. The whole paragraph could go if it's a problem. > And I'd change "fails to work" to "fails,", but that's OK as-is too. > One more -- I'd probably change "Many" to "Some" at the beginning. Agreed. 'fails to work' sounds worse on a re-read and 'Many' implies a greater frequency than is actually true. > (Is this what they call bikeshedding, or is it more-or-less welcome?) Constructive criticism is something that I always find worthwhile. Thanks :) -<PATCH>- also at: http://www.openirc.co.uk/freebsd/install.diff --- chapter.sgml Sat Feb 2 12:18:14 2002 +++ chapter.sgml.new Sat Feb 2 12:22:45 2002 @@ -4553,6 +4553,18 @@ questions and answers for people wishing to dual-boot FreeBSD with MS-DOS.</para> + <note> + <para>Some installation problems can be avoided or alleviated by + updating the firmware on various hardware components, most notably the + motherboard. If the installation fails then updating the BIOS may + solve the problem. Refer to your motherboard manufacturer's website + for information on BIOS revisions and upgrade instructions.</para> + <para>Most manufacturers strongly advise against upgrading motherboard + BIOSs unless you have a good reason for doing so. The + process <emphasis>CAN</emphasis> go wrong, causing the BIOS to be + permanently destroyed.</para> + </note> + <sect2> <title>What to Do If Something Goes Wrong...</title> -</PATCH>- -- Andrew McKay <andy@openirc.co.uk>
On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Michael Lucas wrote: > One minor nit: you combine an emphasis and CAPITALS. I'd just use > <emphasis>. Combining italics and capitals isn't very > professional-looking. It's like the use of multiple exclamation > points. This should, therefore, be the best patch ever...being as it is the combined efforts of me, Gary and Michael. And yeah, I had reservations about the combination of <emphasis> and CAPS but I went with it because you can never have too much stress...or something :) -<PATCH>- also at: http://www.openirc.co.uk/freebsd/install.diff --- chapter.sgml Sat Feb 2 12:18:14 2002 +++ chapter.sgml.new Sat Feb 2 12:22:45 2002 @@ -4553,6 +4553,18 @@ questions and answers for people wishing to dual-boot FreeBSD with MS-DOS.</para> + <note> + <para>Some installation problems can be avoided or alleviated by + updating the firmware on various hardware components, most notably the + motherboard. If the installation fails then updating the BIOS may + solve the problem. Refer to your motherboard manufacturer's website + for information on BIOS revisions and upgrade instructions.</para> + <para>Most manufacturers strongly advise against upgrading motherboard + BIOSs unless you have a good reason for doing so. The + process <emphasis>can</emphasis> go wrong, causing the BIOS to be + permanently destroyed.</para> + </note> + <sect2> <title>What to Do If Something Goes Wrong...</title> -</PATCH>- -- Andrew McKay <andy@openirc.co.uk>
hi all, OK, I apologise for the patches I submitted, which I beleive were not correct, as well had lots of nits, as well as syntax mistakes (<qanaentry>). Thanks for telling me off!, as this will help me think twice, to correct the my bugs before sending a dodgy PR. Thanks once again, Regards, - Hiten Pandya - <hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com
Looks good to me! Yes, I'm interested... any time our docs do something that say "Let's destroy your motherboard!" you get my attention. :) On Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 12:32:32AM +0000, Andrew McKay wrote: > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Michael Lucas wrote: > > > One minor nit: you combine an emphasis and CAPITALS. I'd just use > > <emphasis>. Combining italics and capitals isn't very > > professional-looking. It's like the use of multiple exclamation > > points. > > This should, therefore, be the best patch ever...being as it is the > combined efforts of me, Gary and Michael. And yeah, I had reservations > about the combination of <emphasis> and CAPS but I went with it because > you can never have too much stress...or something :) > > -<PATCH>- also at: http://www.openirc.co.uk/freebsd/install.diff > > --- chapter.sgml Sat Feb 2 12:18:14 2002 > +++ chapter.sgml.new Sat Feb 2 12:22:45 2002 > @@ -4553,6 +4553,18 @@ > questions and answers for people wishing to dual-boot FreeBSD with > MS-DOS.</para> > > + <note> > + <para>Some installation problems can be avoided or alleviated by > + updating the firmware on various hardware components, most notably the > + motherboard. If the installation fails then updating the BIOS may > + solve the problem. Refer to your motherboard manufacturer's website > + for information on BIOS revisions and upgrade instructions.</para> > + <para>Most manufacturers strongly advise against upgrading motherboard > + BIOSs unless you have a good reason for doing so. The > + process <emphasis>can</emphasis> go wrong, causing the BIOS to be > + permanently destroyed.</para> > + </note> > + > <sect2> > <title>What to Do If Something Goes Wrong...</title> > > -</PATCH>- > > -- > Andrew McKay <andy@openirc.co.uk> > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/
Looking over the various comments, replys, ideas, etc, maybe we can take Andy's patch and work it over enough to end up in the troubleshooting area. I can do this even later on today, but would a FreeBSD troubleshooting FAQ/article be a road to take? Maybe a collection of error messages, with quick fixes or work-arounds would be a considerable idea (not to mention task). Any comments or suggestions? -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
State Changed From-To: open->closed Merged with and closed by 34953. Thanks!