Bug 71529 - (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@
Summary: (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@
Status: Closed FIXED
Alias: None
Product: Documentation
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Books & Articles (show other bugs)
Version: Latest
Hardware: Any Any
: Normal Affects Only Me
Assignee: Peter Pentchev
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2004-09-09 16:40 UTC by david
Modified: 2004-09-13 08:36 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:


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Description david 2004-09-09 16:40:16 UTC
Under "Postmaster," doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml
currently shows Jonathan's name & address address as well as mine.

There are a couple of issues; the first is that Jonathan has effectively
retired from postmaster@FreeBSD.org, effective January 2003.  (However,
"jmb" still shows up in the expansion for the "postmaster" alias on
hub.)

That, however, is not the focus of this PR.  I mention it in passing,
and am Cc:ing Jonathan, in case he wants to pipe up.

The focus is that while the names may be useful, the given addresses are
somewhat less so, and may be misleading:  mx1.freebsd.org is (and has
been) set up to treat mail to postmaster@ as "special" -- there are
several circumstances such that if someone tries to send mail to
jmb@freebsd.org or dhw@freebsd.org, the attempt will fail, while an
otherwise equivalent attempt to send mail to postmaster@freebsd.org will
succeed.

This is by design and intent, per RFC 2821, section 4.5.1.

Further, the mail that is addressed to postmaster@freebsd.org that gets
to me does so via the address "freebsd-pm@catwhisker.org" -- in my MTA
rules and filters on mx.catwhisker.org, I make an effort to accept
mail addressed to freebsd-pm@ just as I do for postmaster@ -- and those
rules are a lot less strict than those I have for non-postmaster
aliases.

Thus, with the situation as it now is, someone having trouble sending
mail to one of the FreeBSD.org mailing lists might be inclined to send
mail to dhw@ and jmb@ (individually -- as happened today), and be just
as unable to send mail to those addresses as to the mailing list.  So
the person then ends up sending mail from some other address that does
not exhibit the problem, finding some other way to contact us, or giving
up.

I believe that changing the given email address(es) to just
"postmaster@FreeBSD.org" would better serve folks in need of contacting
Postmaster and suggest that the docs be changed to reflect that.

Fix: 

Sorry; I don't have the docbook-fu for this.  :-(
How-To-Repeat: 	n/a
Comment 1 Peter Pentchev 2004-09-10 10:00:44 UTC
On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:32:29AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:
> 
> >Number:         71529
> >Category:       docs
> >Synopsis:       (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@
> >Originator:     David Wolfskill
> >Description:
> Under "Postmaster," doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml
> currently shows Jonathan's name & address address as well as mine.
[snip]
> I believe that changing the given email address(es) to just
> "postmaster@FreeBSD.org" would better serve folks in need of contacting
> Postmaster and suggest that the docs be changed to reflect that.

What do you think about the following three patches?  You can see them
and the resulting versions of the Contributors article at
http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/

First patch: add 'reachable via' at the end:

Index: article.sgml
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.433
diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
--- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
+++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:35:53 -0000
@@ -510,8 +510,10 @@
 	<term>Postmaster</term>
 
 	<listitem>
-	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
-	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
+	  <para>David Wolfskill,</para>
+	  <para>Jonathan M. Bresler</para>
+	  <para>Both are reachable via the
+	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email> address.</para>
 	</listitem>
       </varlistentry>
 
----------------

Second patch: add a 'Postmaster team' prologue:

Index: article.sgml
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.433
diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
--- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
+++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:38:15 -0000
@@ -510,8 +510,10 @@
 	<term>Postmaster</term>
 
 	<listitem>
-	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
-	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
+	  <para>FreeBSD.org Postmaster team
+	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email>, which includes:</para>
+	  <para>David Wolfskill,</para>
+	  <para>Jonathan M. Bresler</para>
 	</listitem>
       </varlistentry>
 
--------------

Third patch: remove jmb@, add 'reachable via':

Index: article.sgml
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.433
diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
--- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
+++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:39:39 -0000
@@ -510,8 +510,8 @@
 	<term>Postmaster</term>
 
 	<listitem>
-	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
-	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
+	  <para>David Wolfskill, reachable via the
+	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email> address.</para>
 	</listitem>
       </varlistentry>
 
Any other suggestions on wording this are welcome :)

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Peter Pentchev	roam@ringlet.net    roam@cnsys.bg    roam@FreeBSD.org
PGP key:	http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint	FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E  DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553
If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig.
Comment 2 jmb 2004-09-10 13:47:38 UTC
Actually, I would recommend removing my name, Jonathan Bresler, from the
documentation regarding postmaster.  David has been fulfilling that role
very well for a significant period of time.

I have left myself in the /etc/aliases file, as a backup should David have
questions or be unavailable for some reason.  At this point perhaps that
is no longer needed as well.

jmb

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Peter Pentchev wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:32:29AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:
> >
> > >Number:         71529
> > >Category:       docs
> > >Synopsis:       (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@
> > >Originator:     David Wolfskill
> > >Description:
> > Under "Postmaster," doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml
> > currently shows Jonathan's name & address address as well as mine.
> [snip]
> > I believe that changing the given email address(es) to just
> > "postmaster@FreeBSD.org" would better serve folks in need of contacting
> > Postmaster and suggest that the docs be changed to reflect that.
>
> What do you think about the following three patches?  You can see them
> and the resulting versions of the Contributors article at
> http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/
>
> First patch: add 'reachable via' at the end:
>
> Index: article.sgml
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
> retrieving revision 1.433
> diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
> --- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
> +++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:35:53 -0000
> @@ -510,8 +510,10 @@
>  	<term>Postmaster</term>
>
>  	<listitem>
> -	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
> -	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
> +	  <para>David Wolfskill,</para>
> +	  <para>Jonathan M. Bresler</para>
> +	  <para>Both are reachable via the
> +	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email> address.</para>
>  	</listitem>
>        </varlistentry>
>
> ----------------
>
> Second patch: add a 'Postmaster team' prologue:
>
> Index: article.sgml
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
> retrieving revision 1.433
> diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
> --- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
> +++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:38:15 -0000
> @@ -510,8 +510,10 @@
>  	<term>Postmaster</term>
>
>  	<listitem>
> -	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
> -	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
> +	  <para>FreeBSD.org Postmaster team
> +	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email>, which includes:</para>
> +	  <para>David Wolfskill,</para>
> +	  <para>Jonathan M. Bresler</para>
>  	</listitem>
>        </varlistentry>
>
> --------------
>
> Third patch: remove jmb@, add 'reachable via':
>
> Index: article.sgml
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
> retrieving revision 1.433
> diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
> --- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
> +++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 08:39:39 -0000
> @@ -510,8 +510,8 @@
>  	<term>Postmaster</term>
>
>  	<listitem>
> -	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
> -	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
> +	  <para>David Wolfskill, reachable via the
> +	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email> address.</para>
>  	</listitem>
>        </varlistentry>
>
> Any other suggestions on wording this are welcome :)
>
> G'luck,
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Pentchev	roam@ringlet.net    roam@cnsys.bg    roam@FreeBSD.org
> PGP key:	http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
> Key fingerprint	FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E  DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553
> If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig.
>
>
Comment 3 david 2004-09-10 14:46:35 UTC
>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:00:44 +0300
>From: Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net>
>To: David Wolfskill <david@catwhisker.org>
>Cc: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, jmb@FreeBSD.org
>Subject: Re: docs/71529: (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@

>On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:32:29AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:

[PR about postmaster@FreeBSD.org email address documentation]

>What do you think about the following three patches?  You can see them
>and the resulting versions of the Contributors article at
>http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/

My current favorite is the 2nd --  the one with the "Postmaster
Team Prologue".  It's clear and unambiguous; it's easily changed as the
membership of the team changes.

In the first patch, I think I'd be slightly more inclined to use "Each
is reachable" vs. "Both are reachable" (in case something based on the
first patch is finally selected).  But then, if jmb decides to not be
listed, that makes things awkward:  one doesn't write "each" to refer to
the only element of a set or member of a team.  And "both" only works as
long as there are precisely 2 members of the team.

The 3rd patch doesn't strike me as being easily adapted to changes in
the size of the team.

>Any other suggestions on wording this are welcome :)

:-)  Just recall Victor Borge's line (referring to the English
language):  "It's *your* language; I'm just trying to *use* it!"

>If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig.

:-)  I recall reading that line in one of Hofstadter's columns -- I
think it was in his "Metamagical Themas" column in Scientific American
(successor column to Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games".

Thanks!

Peace,
david
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david@catwhisker.org
Evidence of curmudgeonliness:  becoming irritated with the usage of the
word "speed" in contexts referring to quantification of network
performance, as opposed to "bandwidth" or "latency."
Comment 4 Peter Pentchev 2004-09-10 15:09:13 UTC
On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 06:46:35AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:
> >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:00:44 +0300
> >From: Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net>
> >To: David Wolfskill <david@catwhisker.org>
> >Cc: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, jmb@FreeBSD.org
> >Subject: Re: docs/71529: (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@
> 
> >On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:32:29AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:
> 
> [PR about postmaster@FreeBSD.org email address documentation]
> 
> >What do you think about the following three patches?  You can see them
> >and the resulting versions of the Contributors article at
> >http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/
> 
> My current favorite is the 2nd --  the one with the "Postmaster
> Team Prologue".  It's clear and unambiguous; it's easily changed as the
> membership of the team changes.

All right then - so, combined with jmb's reply, this would yield the
following patch, added as the fourth patch now at
http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/ with the result at
http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/contrib-pm-team-dhw.html#STAFF-WHO

Index: article.sgml
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.433
diff -u -r1.433 article.sgml
--- article.sgml	8 Aug 2004 13:43:53 -0000	1.433
+++ article.sgml	10 Sep 2004 13:55:34 -0000
@@ -510,8 +510,9 @@
 	<term>Postmaster</term>
 
 	<listitem>
-	  <para>&a.dhw;,</para>
-	  <para>&a.jmb;</para>
+	  <para>FreeBSD.org Postmaster team
+	    <email>postmaster@FreeBSD.org</email>, which includes:</para>
+	  <para>David Wolfskill</para>
 	</listitem>
       </varlistentry>
 
> >Any other suggestions on wording this are welcome :)
> 
> :-)  Just recall Victor Borge's line (referring to the English
> language):  "It's *your* language; I'm just trying to *use* it!"

Yeah, only it's not mine - or did you mean it the other way round? :)

> >If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig.
> 
> :-)  I recall reading that line in one of Hofstadter's columns -- I
> think it was in his "Metamagical Themas" column in Scientific American
> (successor column to Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games".

Give the man a cigar!  I've been using Hofstadter's sample sentences in
email sigs for some time now; the full list that I'm using is available
at http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/misc/hoflines.txt :)

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Peter Pentchev	roam@ringlet.net    roam@cnsys.bg    roam@FreeBSD.org
PGP key:	http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint	FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E  DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553
If the meanings of 'true' and 'false' were switched, then this sentence wouldn't be false.
Comment 5 david 2004-09-10 15:30:41 UTC
>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:09:13 +0300
>From: Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net>
>To: David Wolfskill <david@catwhisker.org>
>Cc: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, jmb@FreeBSD.org
>Subject: Re: docs/71529: (Strongly!) suggested change to listed address for postmaster@

>> [PR about postmaster@FreeBSD.org email address documentation]

>All right then - so, combined with jmb's reply, this would yield the
>following patch, added as the fourth patch now at
>http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/ with the result at
>http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/pm/contrib-pm-team-dhw.html#STAFF-WHO

Yup.

>> :-)  Just recall Victor Borge's line (referring to the English
>> language):  "It's *your* language; I'm just trying to *use* it!"

>Yeah, only it's not mine - or did you mean it the other way round? :)

The latter -- Borge was Danish.  :-)

>> >If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig.

>> ....  Hofstadter ....

>Give the man a cigar!  I've been using Hofstadter's sample sentences in
>email sigs for some time now; the full list that I'm using is available
>at http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/misc/hoflines.txt :)

I had noticed, but hadn't overcome the inertia enough to get around to
commenting.  :-}

[I actually bought a copy of _Goedel, Escher, Bach: An Eternel Golden
Braid_ for a young lady some years ago.  And she married me anyway....]

Peace,
david
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david@catwhisker.org
Evidence of curmudgeonliness:  becoming irritated with the usage of the
word "speed" in contexts referring to quantification of network
performance, as opposed to "bandwidth" or "latency."
Comment 6 Peter Pentchev freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2004-09-10 15:52:20 UTC
State Changed
From-To: open->closed
Comment 7 Peter Pentchev freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2004-09-10 15:52:47 UTC
State Changed
From-To: closed->analyzed
Comment 8 Peter Pentchev freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2004-09-10 15:52:47 UTC
Responsible Changed
From-To: freebsd-doc->roam

I'll take care of this.
Comment 9 Peter Pentchev freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2004-09-13 08:34:29 UTC
State Changed
From-To: analyzed->closed

(for real this time) 
The fix was committed with a <hostid> tag added on Marc Fonvielle's 
suggestion.  Thanks for the PR, hope this does not make your life too much 
harder as the hordes can now successfully reach the postmaster alias ;)