Bug 208388 - Missing ML choice, freebsd-women@
Summary: Missing ML choice, freebsd-women@
Status: Closed FIXED
Alias: None
Product: Services
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Mailing Lists (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Any Any
: --- Affects Many People
Assignee: postmaster
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on: 229568
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2016-03-29 21:25 UTC by Devin Teske
Modified: 2018-07-06 15:16 UTC (History)
9 users (show)

See Also:


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Description Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2016-03-29 21:25:24 UTC
I would like to request this. Add a comment if you too would also like to see this.
Comment 1 rebecca+freebsd@bluestop.org 2016-03-29 21:51:33 UTC
I think this mailing list would be a good addition, too.
Comment 2 Shawn Webb 2016-03-29 22:53:28 UTC
+1
Comment 3 david 2016-03-30 13:35:06 UTC
postmaster@FreeBSD.org has a list of "things we need to know to create a new mailing list"; here is a copy:

  * Terse (one-line) description of list.
  * More verbose description of list.
  * Any deviations from these defaults:
    * Max message body size: 200KB
    * Not moderated
    * Open (subscription not required for) posting
    * Public archives
    * "Official" name of list "foo" is "freebsd-foo"
    * List is a technical list (vs. freebsd-chat@)
    * List is for discussions (vs. freebsd-announce@)
    * No designated non-postmaster "moderator" or "list administrator"


In the present case, I suspect that some non-default options would be appropriate -- e.g., I suspect that the list would need to be moderated (and thus, a set of moderators would need to be nominated, and some reasonably clear guidelines as to "appropriate content" would need to be set forth, and probably at least sketched in the "verbose description" of the list so potential subscribers would have a reasonable clue about the purpose(s) of, and what to expect from, the list).

One of the things we need to strive to avoid is for the FreeBSD project to create a venue that attracts misogynistic or (otherwise) demeaning content.
Comment 4 Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2016-03-30 22:21:43 UTC
(In reply to david from comment #3)

Will work with others to come up with a good initial short/long description.

Couldn't agree more w/respect to moderation being required to prevent negative remarks from making it through.

We'll have to poll for moderation volunteers. I'll volunteer, but we'll need more than one moderator to make sure that messages flow freely without delay (e.g, if a moderator goes on holiday).
Comment 5 Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2016-04-25 20:24:20 UTC
Still waiting on response from some individuals
Comment 6 Veniamin Gvozdikov freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2016-05-27 09:23:13 UTC
Yes, if we wish to make this one, I hope to see:

1. freebsd-man@
2. freebsd-shemale@
3. freebsd-women@

In case if freebsd-women@ will exist. We have to save rights to every gender!
Comment 7 Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2016-06-09 23:59:37 UTC
(In reply to Veniamin Gvozdikov from comment #6)

Hi vg@,

Thanks for taking the time to write on the subject, appending your thoughts here.

Honestly, at first thought, I wasn't sure that this was such a good idea. Some things that sprang to mind when the -women@ ML was suggested:

+ Is this a slippery-slope to more special-interest groups?
+ Could this be more harm than good?
+ Will this require more resources than we have available?

To which my mind almost immediately starts diverging on these topics:

- Perhaps a good mindset w/respect to "slippery slope" is "anyone can ask; each request will be weighed; a minimum-interest level is required to service a request"

- Perhaps a good place to go w/respect to "more harm than good" is "past experiences tell me that creating safe-spaces for interest groups is never a bad thing unless those groups are violated, under-serviced, or misrepresented. As long as we maintain service, safety, and representation, it should remain a positive expansion/influence/resource for those interested."

- and finally, Perhaps a good answer to "do we have the resources to do this" is "we must draw on the interested persons to fill roles providing required resources to maintain service/safety/representation. The requirement to provide volunteer resources from within is a good way of reinforcing minimum-interest as a requirement for initial creation to prevent unnecessary groups and/or groups that cant self-service once created."

So once I answered those three high-level hard-hitting questions, I figured it was worth continuing.

However, before I created this bug (#208388) that you are reading:

I was careful to keep the conversation "short and sweet" for fear that uninterested groups (read: males) would try and dominate the conversation with views that are either off-key or irrelevant.

I wanted to prevent the discussion from focusing on either:
+ if women get a mailing list, why not (insert other group)
or
+ why do women deserve a mailing list

NOTE: Where, really, I think any group that can self-service should be able to request a mailing list
Comment 8 Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2017-08-10 21:00:53 UTC
(In reply to david from comment #3)

  * Terse (one-line) description of list: FreeBSD Advocacy for Women
  * More verbose description of list:

    Furthering the use of FreeBSD.

    Share ideas and plan to increase the number of women and women-specific groups using FreeBSD.


  * Any deviations from these defaults:

    These are OK:

    * Max message body size: 200KB
    * Not moderated

    Deviation on below item (please make it closed):

    * Open (subscription not required for) posting

    These are OK:

    * Public archives
    * "Official" name of list "foo" is "freebsd-foo"
    * List is a technical list (vs. freebsd-chat@)
    * List is for discussions (vs. freebsd-announce@)
    * No designated non-postmaster "moderator" or "list administrator"
Comment 9 vali gholami 2017-11-26 20:44:52 UTC
MARKED AS SPAM
Comment 10 Devin Teske freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2018-07-05 22:23:49 UTC
Ping
Comment 11 Philip Paeps freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2018-07-05 23:03:47 UTC
Looks like this one was forgotten.  Comment #8 has all the details we need.  I'll set up the list with dteske@ as initial moderator.
Comment 12 Philip Paeps freebsd_committer freebsd_triage 2018-07-06 13:49:44 UTC
I've created the new mailing list and submitted doc bug #229568 to add it to the documentation.